Sunday, July 12, 2009

Maya Calendar: The End of Times

Dec. 21, 2012


Many prophecies have been made about the end of Times. They interest us because millennial belief systems have always seemed so logical, so orderly that we could surrender to them without having to accept the responsibility that always accompanies true prophecy. This is the danger of prophecy, that once the future is proclaimed, we can surrender freedom of choice: why struggle when everything is pre-ordained?


That is why I hesitate to say what the future will bring, and always talk about potential, and possibility, and the need for sacrifice, willingly made.


The Maya were gifted astronomers and mathematicians, and their calculations showed the end of the long count calendar would take place exactly on December 21, 2012, which coincides with "On the winter solstice of 2012, the noonday Sun exactly conjuncts the crossing point of the sun's ecliptic with the galactic plane, while also closely conjunction the exact center of our galaxy" This is our Galactic Center, about which I will write more.


Earlier that year, Venus will pass directly in front of our sun, an extremely rare occurrence, happening twice every 122 years. They signify natural disasters. The last regular occurrence of 1874 and 1882 was followed by typhoons and the destruction of Mt. Krakatoa, the largest volcanic eruption ever. The first leg of the current cycle took place in 2004, followed by the Asian Tsunami, Hurricane Katrina, and the Sichuan earthquake. The second leg will take place in June 2012.


High sunspot activities are followed by wars: the last peak took place in 2000-2001, the next will be in 2012. Will there be war, or a war to end wars?


Those who are born close to the Galactic Center, or have an astrological ascendant or midheaven close to it have this great (sometimes too great) power available to them: Gandhi had it, I (and I'm not a Gandhi) do too, but really, it's going to be interesting to see what happens to me (let alone the world) over the next two years. What I do know is that I will be there on that day, and God will be there.


And another interesting coincidence: According to an ancient Chinese astrology based on constellations as opposed to the more familiar 12 animals, I was born on the day of the sky sheep, which day will occur again on Dec. 21, 2012. That day, in Chinese Astrology with its emphasis on good and bad luck, is mournful, centred as it is in the constellation of the Ghostly Carriage. It deals with spiritual and supernatural matters, my forte :) and people born under this sign have clairvoyant abilities.


So what do I see for that day? Is it the Dimensional Shift I have written about before? The Maya saw the end of the shorter cycle as a time of rebirth, perhaps coinciding with the great floods, but the end of the Long Count? A biblical rapture event? The End of the World, or a beginning?


My answer is this: think of it as a journey, and some will see a great darkness, and some will see a man, helping them into the light.

85 comments:

Abe said...

Thank you for responding to my earlier question, but I have another; for those of us open to your message, what? Do you want us to worship you? I love your blog and the peace that your writing has given me for over a year now, but what is it that you refer to when talking about your followers? Many thanks belatedly for what you've given and in advance for what's to come...

Anonymous said...

One thing for 100% sure.
Whether human, Atlantin, Plutonian, demon, saint, Jinn, Shiva or Brahma; "we all got it coming kid.."

Also, I believe our final exam is the same.

hp

Man From Atlan said...

The only thing I want is to get my message out there. If people are open to the message, great. If they help me pass the message on, even better. Those are the followers I am referring to.
In the past, a group of students and disciples did support me which allowed me to live very modestly with my family, and continue my teaching. I am grateful to and love them very much.
But in order to travel as extensively as I have, the writing, teaching and clinics, I supported that with my own professional earnings, because my dream was to provide healing and teaching to everyone who was open, as witnessed by my current and previous website.
I could have followed the path of so many gurus out of India in early 1970's and built a little meditation empire; I choose not to.
You see, here's a lesson from the Way of Atlan:
God does not require worship, nor a temple or ashram. The true temple is inside you, and you may worship any way you wish.

Anonymous said...

Dear Naseer, I read your articles as they educate and re-educate me and mostly as they remind me of 'home'. I haven't anything specific to say as it all makes clear sense to me so I simply want to say thanks, as I always have and will continue to do so, with more and more understanding, since you've always been a part of my life whether in spirit or in person, always helping me to come home again and again. We are wishing you and yours the very best.
Love,
Chaieomie

Xanadu said...

One thing for 100% sure. Whether human, Atlantin, Plutonian, demon, saint, Jinn, Shiva or Brahma; "we all got it coming kid..."

Pessimist!

Anonymous said...

I resemble that remark, but I'd say I'm more a cynic than a pessimist.
Although in this case, dear Xanadu, I'm surely right ten of ten instead of the usual nine of ten.

Now, about that final exam...

Hope you are doing well. I think of you sometimes, (when I'm eating).

hp

5ds said...

all this is new and chinese to me.

maybe, when the long count calender ends in similar way as my short calender (12 months) ends, start a new calender.

Xanadu said...

A cynic? I don't think so, Homer. I know enough about you now to see you as you really are: an incorrigible romantic, a dreamer, a Platonist, an idealist, an outsider.

You are not at home in this world, Homer; you would prefer to live in an imaginary world.

Am I right in my assessment of you?

Xanadu said...

You are a devotee of Krishna, I take it, and of the teachings of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu (A bit hostile to Shankara, as I learnt to my bitter cost!)

I only discovered all this when I stumbled across a post of yours on Xymphora by pure accident — this was months after I'd left the site. Namely this link:

http://www.harekrishnatemple.com/bhakta/chapter21.html

I found that very useful, I must say, especially this comment: "Since we possess individuality, it is not logical that our ultimate source doesn't possess individuality."

This came as quite a revelation to me! It seemed so obvious though. How could Mind emerge out of Non-Mind? If Brahman is the ultimate reality, how could Brahman lack individual consciousness and yet produce conscious beings with individuality?

So that's one thing I learnt from you, dear Homer: that Brahman is a conscious being with individuality. Not an abstract entity totally devoid of qualities.

Anonymous said...

Xanadu, you are much too kind to a lowly person such as me. And I'm not being deceptive and self deprecating, just honest.
All those sweet words to describe someone who is essentially an indolent selfish lout causes a painful smile..

However, that you understand the ultimate conclusion of all Vedanta causes a warm smile.

"It seemed so obvious though."

You are so very intelligent, indeed.

http://vedabase.net/sb/10/14/19/en

http://gopalkeerty.wordpress.com/2008/02/22/sankaracarya-on-bhagavad-gita-srila-prabhupada-explains/

hp

Xanadu said...

Oh gosh, where will I hide my blushes?!? Seriously though, dear Homer, I am only too aware of my own limitations. Berkeley saw through me as a pious fraud, and so did quite a few others on Xymphora — which is why I had to leave that excellent site in total disgrace.

However, I am pleased to be here talking to you again. Maybe we can exchange a few words from time to time...

Xanadu said...

I sometimes wish Naseer would allow us to post smiley faces on his site. He is obviously waging a war against smiley faces. :)

See what I mean?

All he allows is colons and brackets.

Man From Atlan said...

:) for 5ds and Xanadu.
This is a smiley free zone; if Google hadn't already disallowed it on the comments page, I would, since GIFs and hyperlinks can add unwanted code on people's computers, thank you.
But as 5ds points out, we can always turn over a new page(calendar)

Man From Atlan said...

On the other hand, when we ascribe individuality to the ultimate, we should watch out for the possibility of seeing everything through anthropomorphic eyes.
The reality is more complex.

Xanadu said...

"...we should watch out for the possibility of seeing everything through anthropomorphic eyes."

Good point, but I don't think Homer or I are doing this. The question is: what is Brahman? No one is suggesting that Brahman is some sort of Superhuman, though it's true the Vaishnavites when worshipping Vishnu do so as either Krishna or Rama (Vishnu's avatars).

We are back to pantheism, it seems, where we must think of Brahman as being the repository of all life forms: men, women, androids, intelligent robots with consciousness, fish, fowl, insects, angels, demons, jinn, and other entities unknown and unimaginable.

"Thou art woman, thou art man,
Thou art the youth, thou art the maiden,
Thou art the old man tottering with his staff;
Thou facest everywhere.

Thou art the dark butterfly,
Thou art the green parrot with red eyes,
Thou art the thundercloud, the seasons, the seas.
Without beginning art thou,
Beyond time, beyond space.
Thou art he from whom sprang
The three worlds."


As clear a statement of pantheism as I ever saw. That's from my copy of the Upanishads (which I read quite often),translated by Swami Prabhavananda and Frederick Manchester.

Man From Atlan said...

I wasn't referring to you or hp, at all, Xanadu, but every one. We do project, or maybe are imprinted by the words of others, our personalised views of God, or anthropomorphism.
Now if you want to discuss pantheism, are you saying God is all and all are God, (cosmic pantheism)or just that intelligent individual beings are a reflection of an intelligent being with individuality (acosmic pantheism)?
Or as the animists who were so suppressed by the invading Vedists believed, that God was in nature and the inanimate as well?
As I once argued, the inanimate has consciousness too.
That's the eternal Atlan/Aergon Atlantis/Lemuria conflict, in a nutshell. (Not that there isn't a crossover of concepts)
Now I really like the Tao, where it postulates opposites arguing dialectically, yet, with an underlying One.
And then again, the place that holds a special place in my heart is that of the native peoples:
1. Native people believe in a spiritual world that exists beyond the physical world that is reached through dreams, visions and ceremonies. They also believe in a single spiritual force.
2. The Ojibwe people believe in Kitche Manitou, an Algonkin term which means “The Great Spirit” or sometimes called the “Great Mystery”. Manitou means Spirit.
3. The Seneca believe in Orenda, a Haudenosaunee term which means “Spiritual Power” or energy. Orenda also means good energy, and Otgon means bad energy.
4. Both tribes believe in the meanings of spirit, energy, mystery and magic as it applies to daily life and nature.
5. However, the Ojibwe use prayers, vision quest and seeking guardian spirits, while the Seneca look for answers in the dream world and make masks as spiritual objects,
and see how it travels into Tibetan Buddhism, Siberian and Amazonian shamanism, Hawaiian Huna spiritual tradition?
All equally valid, and I won't take sides in the many different ways one defines God.
Don't get me started on Gnosis either, but the ultimate, individual experience of God is unique to every one.

Xanadu said...

Thanks, MFA, this long and mindbogglingly erudite post requires careful rumination. I'll get back to you some other time when I've digested its contents properly. It's midnight here in England now, so I'm off to bed...

Man From Atlan said...

Well, don't boggle for too long then :)

Xanadu said...

I am still boggled by your erudition, which leaves me feeling like a village idiot, and so I'm tempted to get my revenge on you by quoting Chinese sage Lu Yan: He who speaks, does not know. He who knows, remains silent."

But that wouldn't be fair, would it? :)

The truth is, Naseer, we must try to be humble — at least I must — and not pretend to have the answer to these abstruse questions. Who can say what Brahman is? We can talk about God until the cows come home, and still be far from true knowledge.

In my opinion, God cannot be known; he can only be loved.

The fly in the web that has been freed by human hand from the Lust of the Spider, does not speculate on the nature of humankind. The fly simply buzzes with relief and buggers off. From this fly we have much to learn, Naseer.

God can never be known, he can only be experienced by his rescuing hand.

Xanadu said...

I have a question for you, Naseer. When your disciples ask you, Why is there pain? Why was my little daughter raped and killed with your full knowledge? Why did you permit the Holocaust? — what is your answer?

Man From Atlan said...

The answer to question 2, Xanadu, is that God didn't do those things, man did, and did so, and has pain, because he had no knowledge of God, otherwise he wouldn't have, would he?
Question 1 would be from a smart ass Chinese sage :) but he wouldn't be a teacher, would he, if he couldn't speak and pass on knowledge? Even the spider caught in the web would hopefully, learn from his mistake.
And God talks to us all the time, but people, don't always listen. If they did, they would have knowledge of, and eventually understand, God.
But that's the journey.

Xanadu said...

Thanks for these wise thoughts, Naseer.

I wanted to give you some good news I had today, as I know you will be pleased for me. I've just had a new article accepted by Professor Kevin MacDonald for his website (thoccidentalobserver.net)

It appeared this morning. I am naturally over the moon. Anyway, I hope you enjoy reading it, as you are one of the few people I know who is likely to understand and appreciate what I am trying to do. Which is what everyone on xymphora is also doing: counter-hasbara. My own family (apart from my sister) view my internet activities with intense antagonism. It's a forbidden subject.

Man From Atlan said...

Thanks, I enjoyed it very much. The subject (large noses) was cute because my two sons have rather large noses too, but we call them Roman ;)

Anonymous said...

Xanadu, this may interest you, possibly influence your perspective..

http://forum.iskcondesiretree.info/viewtopic.php?p=779&

homer

Anonymous said...

Sorry...

http://forum.iskcondesiretree.info/viewtopic.php?p=779

homer

Xanadu said...

http://forum.iskcondesiretree.info/viewtopic.php?p=779

thanks, homer, i'll check this out tomorrow when i have some more time. (difference between krishna and vishnu).

meanwhile, i'm wondering if you can give me step-by-step instructions on how to post SINGLE WORD LINKS? (Where you click on a single word, like 'here', and it takes you to the website at once). this is something i still can't do and need to learn.

maybe mfa can help...?
(i've tried finding out from the internet, but i can't follow the instructions).

Xanadu said...

Thanks again for the link, Homer. I read the article today. It's fascinating, though I find some of the ideas hard to comprehend. Especially the idea that Krishna, an avatar of Vishnu, is regarded as SUPERIOR to Vishnu.

I know the analogy is not the same, but to a Christian this would be a bit like saying that Jesus Christ was superior to God the Father.

Christians are really devoted to Christ; they find it hard to relate on an emotional level to God the Father. In the same way, I guess, it's easier for a Hindu to be devoted to a flesh-and-blood person like Krishna than to a nebulous abstraction like Vishnu.

However, we are talking here only of people for whom bhakti yoga is the way to God. Such people can only find God through intense devotion, ie., love.

There are others for whom this approach is unsuitable. These are the philosophers and intellectuals — who find God by thinking about him rather than by loving him. Shankara is more to their taste. They get turned on by the Absolute — by Brahman.

These are my thoughts on the subject, simplistic no doubt, but subject to revision.

Anonymous said...

CCCCCHRIST. Xanadu is Berekely, Oh never mind...

Man. I wanted to respond to your post on Xymph & Niqnaq about the Myer's link. 3x I tried and each time Xymph took it off. Berkeley of course seldom post what I write. Anyway here it is:

Man, sorry if this post is redundant. I responded to your Myer's link on the first thread but it's gone now so I'll try again. (from now on I'm copying each of my post to a word doc. so I don't have to keep recreating them. It happened to me the other day and then the original showed up later).

So about Myer's link. Right off the bat he equates Aryans with Christianity. Why? Aryans (Whites, Caucasian, Westerners, Pink people, whatever) are no more compelled to be Christians than Brown (for lack of a better term) People. This Christian Universalism is just Judaism for non Jews. It's a way to tame the savages. (I really don't admire Charlemgne any more). Christian Universalism brought us the Enlightenment (but was it an enlightenment or was it just another control system?). Take a look at this and tell me what you think:
http://www.geocities.com/athens/ithaca/1180/liberalism1.htm

I. Political liberalism and universalism Political liberalism has always made claims about universal validity. The universal quality of liberal theory is one of it's core principles. To challenge the universal attitude of liberal thought is to rattle its foundations. Yet, the idea of universality was conceived during the Enlightenment period when political philosophers presumably were thought of as well-traveled when they had been to more than three capital cities on the continent of Europe. Ideas about universality paralleled the claims of legitimacy of absolute monarchs, and were certainly needed for matters of political discourse. Yet, these ideas never really had to pass the tests of today, now that mankind has entered the "planetary stage of human development."

Problems today Today, mature liberal democracies, constituted in nation states that built on premises of liberal thought (among them the claim to universality), face the domestic challenge of identity-wars, and the challenge from non-liberal cultures abroad. The western constitutionalist democracies had been able to marry "a single, cosmopolitan conception of human nature and a vigorous national identity" . National particularities colored the different national perceptions of the same "universal" human beings and their rights , but as long as domestic diversity was not an issue (thanks to a widely perceived national homogenity, and the enchantment and delight people took in perceiving themselves as national citizens), to uphold universal claims was no problem. Imperialism abroad, fueled by liberal claims, had never been troubled by diversity, either. But now, diversity and particular identities have become an issue domestically and abroad. The marriage of the universal aim of liberty to a perception of a homogenous essence of man is troubled, and that doesn't look good to non-liberal neighbors in the global village either. Nevertheless, classical liberal thought, such as presented by David Gauthier, does not tolerate (domestic or international) particular identities and ways of life, and Western democracies continue to advertise the universality of the liberal idea of human rights, and maybe do so more today then ever. The universal seed of liberalism is finally about to be grown. The question is, does it become a flower that ornaments liberal thought and practice, or a weed that bursts other foundations of liberalism, such as it's supposed neutrality or tolerance?

Laurie

Xanadu said...

CCCCCHRIST. Xanadu is Berekely, Oh never mind...

Here's where I could do with a proper smiley face!

Xanadu said...

It's so nice to hear from you again, sweetheart, I have so missed you and your unique voice! There is a quintessence of femininity, a certain je ne sais quoi, and it's name is 'Laurie'. I love it.

If you really do believe Xanadu and Berkeley are the same person, my darling, then speak to me here and we'll both pretend it is Berkeley! How are you getting on, by the way? What are you doing with yourself nowadays?

I look forward to hearing from you.

Xanadu.

Xanadu said...

Its name (not IT'S name)! What a howler. Berkeley would never do that... :)

Anonymous said...

Even Berkeley makes mistakes.

You're just Berkeley practicing being nice.

Laurie

Hummmm, come to think of it, we can talk if you like. Why don'tcha give me a private link, cauz of course we don't wanta take advantage of MFA's space. (wink wink)

Xanadu said...

I have no private link, sweetheart. We can talk here, if you wish, on matters mystical and religious — and this ought not in any way to perturb the gentle and hospitable Naseer.

Alternatively, we can talk about politics on theuglytruth.wordpress.com where I think you would be an absolute sensation. The people are not as brilliantly intelligent on Ugtruth (as I call it) as they are on Xymphora, but they're not a bad lot and would welcome you there with open arms. I certanly would, my dear Laurie, for the fact is I have missed you quite a lot.

But I warn you in advance, I am NOT Berkeley! So if you expect to enter into communication with our bearded genius, you will be sadly disappointed! I am just simple halfwitted Xanadu, okay?

More later...

Anonymous said...

Laurie, I thought you knew by now that
"Aryan" is a way of life.
Nothing less.

Xanadu, Who does Christ worship?
Who does Vishnu worship?
Who did Shankara worship?
Perhaps it's all too easy?

I know it's too easy for Rowan, the frustrated mystic..

homer

Anonymous said...

it's about the journey isn't it Homer, not about the destination. If we think or hope for some truth at the end of the journey we've missed the point. We need to embrace the journey. I don't think there is A god, I think there are MANY gods and their power comes from belief in them, their power comes from our journey.

L.

Thanks for the invite X. but I'm going to give it a pass. I'm a bit tired of bashing the jews (odious as they can be). I want to look behind the curtain.

Xanadu said...

How does one begin to answer all these deep questions, Homer? Wretched Xanadu remains totally clueless, a little child crouching in a dark cupboard, "seeing through a glass darkly."

Laurie certainly makes a few excellent points, and I value what she has to say far more than anything Rowan said, for at least I can understand Laurie. All respect to Rowan though, a mad genius if ever there was one.

I don't know whom to worship, Homer, but I certainly know whom to forgive!

Laurie, go in peace, my dear. If ever you want to speak to me, you know where I am.

Xanadu said...

Who does Christ worship? Who does Vishnu worship? Who does anyone worship?

If we hold to the view that "ALL IS ONE" — that everything is ultimately reducible to Brahman — that Atman and Brahman are identical — that all the individual jivas in the universe are no more than cells in the body of Brahman — then the question "WHO TO WORSHIP?" becomes redundant.

There is no one left to worship but Oneself.

An awesome or awful prospect, to say the least, depending on whether Brahman is an optimist or pessimist.

Man From Atlan said...

To answer your questions then I may be away for a few weeks:
Xanadu, Who does Jesus or Vishnu worship?
"God does not require worship, nor a temple or ashram. The true temple is inside you, and you may worship any way you wish"
Jesus' teachings came by way of allegory, and the father, son and holy ghost can also be seen as the father, mother, child aspects of God; you can fit Brahman and Atman within that too if you wish.
I'd add Gurdjieff's the unknoweable to the mix too, and you'd be close.
What I'm saying is that these are man made attempts to define God through the human prism, which if it were to lead to anthropomorphism (ascribing human qualities to God, making Man as God's image, even, worshipping ourselves :) then that wouldn't be wrong, but just, misleading.
These are the principles that I believe in:
All of God's creation are images of, or aspects of God.
God's a work in progress, like us.
Imperfect, just like us, but also containing perfection, like us.
Is that anthropomorphism? Only if that weren't true.
And God is detached and neutral, but also engages in a dynamic with us.
And the purpose of our journey is to one day become One, but until then we can also know, experience God.
Abe mentioned the peace he felt, in the first comment. One can also feel God's presence through love, and joy.

Anonymous said...

I don't recall anyone saying anything about God REQUIRING worship.
Neither Vishnu, Brahma, Jesus or little ole me.
By definition, God requires nothing. So, right from the very first this "analysis" is tainted, prejudiced, faulty.
Not an insult, but an expected result of human interpretation. Either you believe Krishna/God spoke the Gita or He did not.

"God's a work in progress."

Coming from anyone who, incredibly enough, claims to BE God, of this I have no doubt.

homer

Anonymous said...

Myself? I'm sticking with Krishna..

Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 2.12

na tv evāhaḿ jātu nāsaḿ

na tvaḿ neme janādhipāḥ

na caiva na bhaviṣyāmaḥ

sarve vayam ataḥ param

TRANSLATION

Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.

PURPORT

The same Vedic truth given to Arjuna is given to all persons in the world who pose themselves as very learned but factually have but a poor fund of knowledge. The Lord says clearly that He Himself, Arjuna and all the kings who are assembled on the battlefield are eternally individual beings and that the Lord is eternally the maintainer of the individual living entities both in their conditioned and in their liberated situations. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the supreme individual person, and Arjuna, the Lord's eternal associate, and all the kings assembled there are individual eternal persons. It is not that they did not exist as individuals in the past, and it is not that they will not remain eternal persons. Their individuality existed in the past, and their individuality will continue in the future without interruption. Therefore, there is no cause for lamentation for anyone.

The Māyāvādī theory that after liberation the individual soul, separated by the covering of māyā, or illusion, will merge into the impersonal Brahman and lose its individual existence is not supported herein by Lord Kṛṣṇa, the supreme authority. Nor is the theory that we only think of individuality in the conditioned state supported herein. Kṛṣṇa clearly says herein that in the future also the individuality of the Lord and others, as it is confirmed in the Upaniṣads, will continue eternally.

Man From Atlan said...

Laurie, as a political junkie I enjoyed the site you referenced:
http://www.geocities.com/athens/ithaca/1180/liberalism1
One could write a thesis but my comments will be spare:
1: Political liberalism isn't universal or even inherent in the human condition; though I can see where they used biblical exegesis to make it more Universal, I can also see this as a stage between absolute monarchy and Hobbes 'consensual participation'.
2: I see the Enlightenment more as a confluence of the Reformation, the split between the Catholic and Protestant Church, and the influence of Jewish philosophy, Platonian texts, and Alchemical search, but the last might be a bit too esoteric for some. Suffice to say the alchemists searched more rigorously than Hobbes did for the essential nature of Man, hobbled (sorry) as he was by Christianity. The importance of Alchemical thought in European, Chinese and Arab tradition shouldn't be underestimated. I've already argued that Newton wasn't the first of the 'rational' scientists, but, the last of the alchemists :)
3: I find the concept of the 'unencumbered self' somewhat akin to belief in the 'Noble Savage' and when we ask what is the nature of man, and that nature in itself has certain imperfections, we see contradictions in Hobbes argument: human self interest can be both perfect human enlightenment but also, imperfect and selfish.
4: So I see liberalism as a middle ground between the absolute monarchies and complete overthrow of the existing order; the German princes who supported Martin Luther as a precursor to modern day capitalism first had to eradicate the communal Albigensian heresy.
5: So I see Liberalism as based on false premises; the semblance of equality does not match with the reality of catch words like tolerance, equality, freedom, democracy, or inherent human rights, and the consensus of the individual man (to be governed) is as easily manipulated as any other tribal or religious belief.
6: So why should we allow liberalism to substitute one form of morality with another, or believe that there are no racial, religious, personal or societal differences?

I believe the very definitions of liberalism as espoused here lead to imposed solutions, which again contradict liberalism's emphasis on consensual solutions. So why should we invade Afghanistan to enforce women's schools, or restrict speech, or mandate racial and social integration, if not to admit there are very real limits on freedom of choice even within liberalism?

In which case, what use is it? I'd move on, and find new solutions. For myself, I'm a big believer in enlightened monarchs, educating people, and that one day there will be true freedom and equality.

When you're ready for it, that is.

Man From Atlan said...

Well homer, not to say that 'worship's' a bad word, but here's the Hare Krishnas http://www.atlantaharekrishnas.com/
"We have several programs focussed on glorifying God through singing, dancing, worship of the lord(arathi)" and http://www.deityworship.com/
"Deity Worship at Home"
"Here you can find all the information you need to worship the Lord in your home"
So you worry about YOUR imperfections, and I'll worry about mine ;)

Man From Atlan said...

And being 'Aryan' may be a way of life, or a philosophy that divides one between the original darker skinned peoples of India and the lighter skinned invaders, but the original Arya and the rig vedas came from Iran, or so they say.
(Arya is a fairly common name there)

Man From Atlan said...

"As Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita:
"And of all yogins, he who full of faith worships Me, with his inner self abiding in Me, him, I hold to be the most attuned (to me in Yoga)."[54]
"After attaining Me, the great souls do not incur rebirth in this miserable transitory world, because they have attained the highest perfection."[55]
"... those who, renouncing all actions in Me, and regarding Me as the Supreme, worship Me... For those whose thoughts have entered into Me, I am soon the deliverer from the ocean of death and transmigration, Arjuna. Keep your mind on Me alone, your intellect on Me. Thus you shall dwell in Me hereafter."[56)"

Man From Atlan said...

Jaysus on worship:"
The woman said to Him, "Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet. Our fathers worshipped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where on ought to worship." Jesus said to her, "Woman believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. "You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father is spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (Jn. 4:19-24)"

Man From Atlan said...

Whatever's behind the curtain, Laurie, I'm sure you'll find it.
Anything spiritual, or otherwise of course, be my guest here.
Here's something non-spiritual:
http://www.rexresearch.com/articles/ocultech.htm

Anonymous said...

MFA,

If you have the time before you go away, can you please tell me how to post word-substitute links? If I can explain what I need to know.

In my recent article, Controlling Anti-Jewish Stereotypes: The Case of the "Hook-Nosed Jew", published on Kevin MacDonald's website theoccidentalobserver.net and also on israelshamir.net, you will find the following paragraph:

This has now been further documented in the booklet "Breaking the Silence" which compiles testimonies of soldiers in "the most moral army in the world".

The phrases "Breaking the silence" and "the most moral army in the world" are both underlined in the original text (not on your website for some reason). If you click on them, they link to website articles.

I need to learn how to do this. I forgot to explain to you earlier that this was done FOR me by Kevin MacDonald. I supplied all the FULL links in footnotes — he then converted them for me into intra-textual links and got rid of my footnotes.

I've tried looking this up on the internet, but so far I haven't been able to find a site that gives simple STEP-BY-STEP instructions.

To summarize, I already know how to post FULL links like this:

http://www.israelshamir.net/Contributors/Controlling.htm
(the link to my article on the Shamir website).

I need to go to the NEXT step and say something like: "Click HERE for further information on Jewish noses," where the word "HERE" (underlined) supplies the link when you click on it.

Sorry for sounding so dimwitted, but I really am computer illiterate! Sincere apologies for troubling you on this point, MFA, but I remember how useful you were to me on xymphora when I asked you similar questions about a year ago.

Xanadu

Man From Atlan said...

Xanadu, you can see that this comment section only allows a a few HTML tags like bold, and italics.Try posting the full address separately, as shown in the previous comment, and people can copy and paste themselves if they wish. I said I wouldn't allow embedded links, even if I could,
due to security concerns.
This website might help in other situations: http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_links.asp

Anonymous said...

Naseer, if I worried about my imperfections as an exercise, that's all I'd have time for, no doubt.

Though once again, sir, you have misconscrewed me.

Key word was not worship.
Key word was "REQUIRED."
That was my point.

Does entering into Krishna preclude individuality?
I think not, as per Krishna.

"Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be."

We both know what is the other's "sticking point" here...

That's cool, I admire your patience and I respect your Jnana.

Homer

Anonymous said...

Xanadu, how is your new diet shaping up?
I'm rooting for you.

(no pun intended)

Homer

Man From Atlan said...

Thanks, homer. If God says the way to God is Bhakti, is Devotion, is calling out God's name so many times a day then one can argue in so many ways whether its a requirement or a mitzvah or a desirous, voluntary deed. Religion has a way of making what is compulsory seem voluntary :) if you want to go to heaven, and the stick and carrot is always there.
Me, I think people are stuck in their relationship with God and do not have the true peace that would come from true understanding.
So if I'm wrong in my belief, then I'm wrong, and will change eventually. But if I'm right, then maybe you'll change eventually :)
See the first question, from Abe.
Do I want people to worship me? No.
Does God require worship? No.
An unequivocal statement which gives you true freedom of choice because what I'm saying is that each person has their own path to God. So if Hare Krishna shows you your path, great. Did I say that path was wrong? But if an individual, say, were to find that path wrong for them then it takes a Supreme Egoist (which is the standard definition of God :) to say that THEY'RE wrong, not that I'm accusing you of that, my statements are general but always respectful of a person's right to chose.
And when I said earlier, Follow Me, that was still respecting a person's right to chose, and acknowledging how difficult it might be for some to make that leap of faith.
And for some, not.

Xanadu said...

Xanadu, how is your new diet shaping up?
I'm rooting for you.

(no pun intended)


I'm wilting away...if I wilt any more, I'm gonna sue you. :)

moonkoon said...

Wow, what a blog!

Xanadu, re your link question. you use the url tag. e.g.

first bracket url=http://google.com]go[/url last bracket

And that link you posted lacks an "e", should be, theoccidentalobserver.
Leaving vowels out is something that never made any sense to me. :-)

Laurie says,

I don't think there is A god, I think there are MANY gods and their power comes from belief in them, their power comes from our journey.

I have been mulling over that exact point myself lately.
We seem to be able to relate to God if we address one particular facet of the whole, so different Gods are handy.
Christians have no trouble with the three persons in one Trinity, we (this is one of the religions I consider myself to belong to. :-) ) also have saints and other also-rans who assist in particular areas of human endeavor.
But I think there is a trap for us here, we can end up with a dualistic view of the world if we don't see them as part of the one God.
The Egyptians had the idea, "One in all, all in one", which I think is a pretty good way of seeing things.

MFA says,
This is the danger of prophecy, that once the future is proclaimed, we can surrender freedom of choice: why struggle when everything is pre-ordained?

This is very true, I have seen the results of a full-on millenial movement, the rise and the fall. So sad how people get sucked in, how we get so devastated when what we had faith in turns out to be a dud, a false god.
We have plenty of these imposters to choose from in modern culture, efficiency, security and exceptionalism are a few of the panoply that currently bedevil us.
Change is bound to occur when some or all of them are exposed as the wretched fakes they are, cons that promise much but destroy so much more.
My sincere advice is to stick with Agape. :-)

It's such a pleasure to see everyone on the blog getting along.

Anonymous said...

Well Xanadu, methinks you need to hop on over to "Herbies" once or twice a week for a heaping helping of vegetarian lasagna, maybe some Greek vegetable pie and my favorite, a chocolate malt.
homer

Herbies Vegetarian Restaurant
15 North Street, Exeter
------------------------------------

The Plant Cafe-Deli
1 Cathedral Yard
Exeter
Devon EX1 1HJ

Xanadu said...

Homer, thanks for these culinary tips! I'm surprised you can still remember where I live...you must have a good memory!

I don't often go into Exeter, though it's the main big city in this area, apart from Plymouth — both of them an hour's journey by bus from where I live in Buckfastleigh. This is a very small village on the edge of Dartmoor. It only has one main street and all the villagers' houses are sprinkled round it like cakecrumbs.

There's a big monastery of Benedictine monks close by (Buckfast Abbey). They run a restaurant in their grounds called 'The Grange' where hearty meat dishes are served, roast beef and Yorkshire pudding being the Sunday favorite. The monks are great trenchermen and certainly look sleek and well-fed! No veggie dishes here, I'm afraid.

Homer, do you belong to the Hare Krishna group by any chance? I'm just wondering...

Take care.

Xanadu.

Man From Atlan said...

"It's such a pleasure to see everyone on the blog getting along"
Gee thanks, moonkoon, this is primarily a spiritual dating service ;) you should see how hard I tried to match up Rowan with Xanadu!
Concerning the millenial and one god versus many belief systems, i'll be addressing that in the next while, starting with Cults I Have Known; I think you'll like that!
All the best to you, moonkins, and Xanadu?
Don't have a cow, but for the sake of your health, have a cow! :)
A woman I know had an Indian guru convince her that vegetarianism was the 'spiritual' thing to do; 7 years later she had pernicious anaemia and all sorts of other immune system related illnesses.
All the supposed health 'benefits' of vegetarianism have been disproven; I see the effects every day in terms of protein insufficiency disease, thyroid disorder and fertility problems, but hey, its your body.
A good book that gives the other perspective is Sally Fallon's Nourishing Traditions: "Nourishing Traditions The Cookbook that Challenges Politically Correct Nutrition and the Diet Dictocrats. Second Edition, by Sally Fallon with Mary G Enig, PhD
www.newtrendspublishing.com/SallyFallon/aboutSallyFallon.html
and even from a spiritual perspective the Chinese have it way over the Indians in terms of the Tao versus all those Vedic injunctions, spirituality is all about balance.
A yoga teacher I knew was a long time vegetarian, which coming from European stock genetically used to eating meat is deadly.
After 20 years her hips had deteriorated to the point she couldn't teach yoga any more. Vegetarians DO develop osteoarthritis. After a year of intensive healing I was able to help her hips regenerate to the point she no longer needed hip replacement surgery, she was able to do her asanas and teach yoga for another 10 years.
And I never insisted, just told her she needed to honour her OWN traditions instead of latching on to something she chose for emotional reasons alone.
One day, driving along the highway, she stopped at a hamburger stand. It was the best she'd ever eaten.
And when she left she did so as a more spiritual person than when she drove in, because she had honoured her own body's needs too.
God does NOT require you to wear a hair shirt.

Xanadu said...

Gee thanks, moonkoon, this is primarily a spiritual dating service ;) you should see how hard I tried to match up Rowan with Xanadu!

Well, obviously you didn't try hard enough! Did you know I've been permanently banned from posting comments on niqnaq? Heartbreaking, n'est-ce pas? :)

Xanadu said...

A yoga teacher I knew was a long time vegetarian, which coming from European stock genetically used to eating meat is deadly. After 20 years her hips had deteriorated to the point she couldn't teach yoga any more. Vegetarians DO develop osteoarthritis.

Homer's not going to be too pleased when he sees you knocking vegetarianism! There may be a grain of truth in what you say, but I find your logic a bit dubious. For a start, how would you account for Bernard Shaw's remarkably good health? Here's a guy who lived to over 90 on a strict vegan diet! He didn't have ostearthritis or backache or anything else like that. Robust as hell, his mind sharp as a razor. Apart from Shaw, there are thousands of Western vegans who aren't exactly cracking up!

My own view is this: the yoga teacher you speak of probably had a propensity to ostearthritis because of her early-life history. Maybe she had a tendency to rickets in childhood — many kids do. Maybe she went on one slimming diet too many. Maybe she lacked Vitamin D — too little sunlight. You never know.

As for myself, I cheat a little. For a start, I eat fish, so I can't really describe myself as a lacto-vegetarian. I think exercise is of paramount importance. It's the sedentary lifestyle that is deadly.

moonkoon said...

Xanadu, your banning by Rowan is probably due to a disorder with which you may have been afflicted, a condition that we here in the Antipodes call, "askinforit". :-)

It's a fairly common complaint, I myself get a dose of it from time to time, it's one of those lifestyle type maladies, which, as MFA points out above, and which you assure us that you have implemented, often responds to behavioral adjustments.

As you have probably noticed, Rowan is an honest, straightforward fellow who has copped more than his fair share of trolls in his efforts to help us shed the scales from our eyes. Patience with mischievous damsels in distress is in short supply at Niqnaq.

However who can tell what the future holds, tomorrow is another day, while there's life there's hope, etc. etc. :-)

But seriously, I think MFA is right about how we need to recognize our genetic and/or environmental limitations. As a somewhat extreme example, I once lived in a place where the staple diet was sago, (it is a starchy food that is extracted from the pith of a palm tree trunk). There was no way that my stomach could handle the volume needed to sustain normal activity. To make matters worse, one of the main protein sources was a fat white grub that also ate the sago pith!
When the sago eaters found themselves in a place where no sago was to be had they felt equally as ill at ease as I was with the sago.
Now don't get me wrong, sago is a wonderful food which I would recommend to anyone, but sago this sago that, day in day out was never going to be my cup of tea.
I think our Western diet could do with a higher proportion of foods like this such a yams, taro, sweet potato, sago, cooking bananas, potato, tapioca etc.
They are reputed (except for sweet potato) to help reduce the chronic acidosis that bedevils many who partake of a Western, hi-density nutrient (cereals) diet.
I suspect there is a link between high endogenous acid producing foods and the meteoric rise in auto-immune diseases that we seem to be experiencing.
I should add that the sago eaters never missed a chance to eat a morsel of meat, and at the time I lived with them, the sago eaters we busy getting into the new foods such as rice and wheat flour, canned meat and fish, which they called "strong food".

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/76/6/1308?ijkey=f75ce7a783b0eec63b58829af7993d85a8fb63b2&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha

Anonymous said...

Xanadu, no I am not an ISKCON member or initiate.
I do consider Srila Prabhupada my spiritual master/guru/mentor/benefactor.

My view on vegetarianism is actually quite simple.
What I eat I first offer to the Supreme Personality, Krishna.
Krishna does not "eat" flesh and blood.
Therefore neither do I.

I dearly love simplicity.
"Simple living, high thinking."

Now I'm not absurd to the point of not realizing that it is practically impossible for people who live at the North pole or the Gobi desert etc. to achieve a diet based on grains, fruit, vegetables and milk.
Obviously I live where these are readily available and so I simply accept this blessing and avail myself of it.
And I'm still rooting for you.
(and everyone else)

Homer

Man From Atlan said...

I would never use logic to make my point, Xanadu, because then I'd be arguing with a lot of linear thinkers :)
So I'm not trying to convert you, just stating a belief, which is what this blog is about actually. So if you believe that vegetarianinsm works for you, great, and neither homer nor I would be offended.
GBS was of a different generation and from his looks, a blood type A, the natural vegetarians according to Dr. Peter D'Adamo, the Blood Type Diet researcher. O's, on the other hand, are natural meat eaters, and both the yoga teacher and my disciple should never have been told the only way they could be 'spiritual' was to eschew meat.
I am not only a spiritual teacher, I'm a physician as well. And while I can't deny that many older vegetarians (anyone over 30) seem to be doing all right, many more are definitely, not.
And as for children, they definitely do NOT do well on it, especially the European ones. Indian people on the other hand have 2000 years of genetic adaptation to protect them.
So I use this blog really to educate not one person at a time, but any one who might read these words.
What they do with it is up to them, of course.

Man From Atlan said...

Much as I may have tried to match you up with the Berkeley :)
the success of that would have depended on both of you, of course, Xan :)
I'd second moonkins on that as well:)

Anonymous said...

In our short-count calendar of a week a variety of meals come onto the table. Mondays usually potatoes with curd, chive and salad. Next day often spinach and an egg with a bit of bacon. Wednesday noodles baked with cheese.. and so on. We Prussians find potatoes healthy (since Friedrich II introduced them), sometimes meat a little, Friday fish. My best time was with something warm to eat at noon and regular. And we used to thank God for what he gives to us.
thanks for reading and best wishes for your blog-writing, Mfa,
Ludolf

Man From Atlan said...

"And we used to thank God for what he gives to us".
That's it, Ludolf, we give thanks.
And I'm sure your diet is very right for you. All the best, did you get another cat?

Xanadu said...

Xanadu, your banning by Rowan is probably due to a disorder with which you may have been afflicted, a condition that we here in the Antipodes call, "askinforit". :-)... Patience with mischievous damsels in distress is in short supply at Niqnaq.

Nice to hear from you again, Mooncalf. Your rebuke is humbly accepted. However, I must tell you I don't behave so irresponsibly any more. I was going through an extended nervous breakdown all the time I was on Xymphora. Thankfully, that's all behind me now. I've made a complete recovery.

The respect and admiration you express for Rowan is one I share. You must not think I bear him any ill will just because we exchanged a few insults. It was all shadow boxing in Plato's cave. RB would understand the allusion...

Anonymous said...

You remember, Man F Atlan, no, Sissi wasn't our cat, came over from neighbors, where she had trouble with other cats, probably; but choose to stay with us the last years, as a friend she was. She was happy when we came home and balanced over the garden door - so very sad when she had to leave us to where ever, the other world.
To thank God for the meal is the old custom of course, and when we followed the conditioning of our time in the 70s to disregard our parents or older people, where have we landed now? In the supermarket consumer paradise, where the colored package is more attractive than the vegetables.. you know that of course. The rule of money has gone that far, that growing your own food isn't profitable..
But at that time, I kept respect for nature, at least, that we depend on, if we try to grow something in the garden. And in the last 20, 10 years, I returned home to some traditions, thanks to the patience and endurance of someone older.
That is, what my declaration above should have meant. To thank God helps also not to become too presuming (arrogant) oneself.
To tie it to your Maya calendar thoughts - don't know if it is possible for society to return to the older traditions or if we will have to witness a breakdown of the "modern" world or even more financial slavery, who knows..
Ludolf

Man From Atlan said...

Yes I do rememeber the companionship of cats, Ludolf. And I recommend to people they learn to once again grow the food they eat, and re-establish their connection with the land.

Man From Atlan said...

And since you refer to your nervous breakdown yourself Xanadu then I should mention it was very obvious that you were going through a crisis and lobro and I defended your right to be on That Other Forum, X :) and that I did pray for you often and send healing.
And THAT is why I spoke up about your diet, Ms. X, my concern was for your well being..

Anonymous said...

Me too!

http://www.photoforum.com/index.php?s=be4304368df18a33053dcc2ab52ca2b1&act=Attach&type=post&id=13978

Man From Atlan said...

Well Anon, your link leads to a disabled blog and/or requires signing in. Could you tell us what it's about, please?

Anonymous said...

I reckon it turned out to be about how lame and errant I am...

"Me too" was a reference to Xanadu's well being, as in Me too!!, I'm concerned for her well being also.

The lame link I offered was a very cute photo of a barn cat nestled in the hayloft.
That was for Ludolph, as I also remember his sadness at losing the special cat which he was surely very fond of.

Homer

Xanadu said...

Thanks, everyone, for being so nice to me. I shouldn't have made such an exhibition of myself on Xymphora. But as Nietzsche said in Thus Spake Zarathustra, "It's pain that makes hens and poets cackle." :)

The problem, I'm afraid, is a universal one: godlessness. This is the condition that Nietzsche — true founder of the Frankfurt School — set out to provoke. So many of us have fallen for Nietzsche's lethal charms.

Here's the magic formula:

Nietzsche + Freud + Frankfurt School = Suicide.

Thus Walter Benjamin, a leading Frankfurter, committed suicide. It was the only logical thing for him to do. Once you sign on for godlessness you might as well blow your brains out.

Love is the answer, for God lies hidden in the heart of love.

Man From Atlan said...

I think the entire 'Enlightenment' led to godlessness, Xanadu. One hopes for intellectualism tempered by the fact we are all creations of God, and love for one another.
The sons of light, the Luciferians, are all so sure of their supremacy, yet so hollow inside. That's why (note to Ludolph) it doesn't matter what they do, as long as we live as naturally as possible.
And everyone, you can continue this thread, but there's a new article I hope you read.

Anonymous said...

Xanadu, there are folks who believe Nietzsche tried to (and mostly succeeded) pull a fast one..

Nietzsche was in fact a devotee of Krsna. He once said "I could be the Buddha of Europe." Like Buddha, Nietzsche too merely pretended to be an atheist. He lied for Krsna. In the second to last section of Beyond Good and Evil, #295, Nietzsche describes his secret God, code named Dionysus, as the pied piper in everyone's heart, the philosopher great with a disciplic succession. This is Krsna, about whom Nietzsche was not only well aware, but quite in love with.

"Whatever is profound loves masks; ... Might nothing less than the opposite be the proper disguise for the shame of a god?"

Homer

Xanadu said...

MFA: "I think the entire 'Enlightenment' led to godlessness, Xanadu."

I agree. We forgot to mention Darwin. It was Darwin who drove Nietzsche mad and made him say "God is dead."

Homer: "Nietzsche was in fact a devotee of Krsna. He once said "I could be the Buddha of Europe." Like Buddha, Nietzsche too merely pretended to be an atheist. He lied for Krsna."

You've lost me, Homer! Try and remember that Nietzsche went mad. Like everyone who goes mad, he went mad slowly. Each of his works is a milestone on the way to madness.

"I am dynamite!" he said. He sure was! Quick, duck!

No one has enthralled me more than Nietzsche — or damaged me more.

Anonymous said...

Nietzsche, Like Buddha, A Disguised Devotee Of Krishna

-------------------------------------

Xanadu, copy and paste the above into Google, Bing, etc. Even if you don't agree, at least you won't be lost as to the gist.

One could argue we are all mad by default.
It's only a matter as to what degree and if we are on the/a path to sanity.

Remember, I'm a believer in human devolution, not evolution.
Especially in this Kali Yuga which is the essence of collective human devolution.
Of course there are always individual exceptions..

Homer

Anonymous said...

Ja,ja, good thoughts. For "Enlightenment" in German we use a slightly other expression: Aufklaerung - clearing up. I remember in the Alsace in a chapel of a castle we visited once, were still the words on a wall, from the French revolutionaries: "temple de la raison" (reason). This is seducing to feel superior as it is common today. As I just witness also how "New Age" has become very business like. Yes like ManFA saying, things can become shallow and hollow that way. But there are genuine and good ideas nevertheless.

The picture of the cat is still there, Homer, (pasting the link in a new tab). Dreaming probably. It's true, we can't win, time will end and the present state of life (even without consulting the Mayan mathematicians) and also companions have to leave one time. Sad as with your brother, hp, and someone had to leave me too, sad and only thing that helps is to put the memories together of those we had an affection with, or relatives, how they were serene and open to the world - knowing that the course of life is tragic. So with modern people full of illusions, deceived by the copied life in the media, Kali yuga,- the older times had more honesty (for some) - we will be more alone remembering, what others now think is stupid (not clever as they are, the cynics).
Good link- with Nietzsche, this aspect. It can be what he meant lately and concealed, will think about it.
Fritz Ludolf...

Anonymous said...

How are you, Fritz? I was wondering if "Ludolph" and "Fritz" were the same person (because of the mention of the cat), and here you have confirmed it.

By the way, your English has improved tremendously over the last two years. Congratulations! Keep well and God bless you.

Xanadu.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for your thoughts, Fritz.

In the words of our beloved Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur....

"This world is no place for a gentleman."

Homer

Anonymous said...

only names, Xanadu. (at Xymph all should have names with X...) but my English is narrow, never enough of the real words like in poems).
I was mistaken, hp, that by reading much about history one could do something about the running of time. Though maybe necessary to be aware of the situation today: there was an age of Reason, Enlightenment - then today compared, it is an age of the media and movies, by definition build on lies, untruth and illusions, more than before - but the mass of that makes it shallow, like flooding the mind and only some can stay with inner freedom, natural thinking, if they stay with some older tradition, religion - often nature can give that, I think, or exercising something like TaiChi, Qigong may be good.. that's all I know.
Ludolf

Man From Atlan said...

There are so many older traditions and religions, Ludolf.
I resist the modern age's attempts to demonise any religion through the actions of a few, be they Catholics, Hindus Muslims or any others.
So if someone gets peace by attending a church service (one of my most beautiful moments was in synagogue)then that's great.
If Yoga or chi gong helps, great.
If I weren't aware of nihilistic attempts to destroy religion, the better to remove essential moral forces, I'd wouldn't support them as much, though.

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Man From Atlan said...

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Man From Atlan said...

This is why I don't enable code.

Man From Atlan said...

Bad people don't prosper either, babaloo, though I do seem to be afflicted by such who, equating niceness with weakness, try to take advantage.